Curse

BaxterMondune · Jul 19, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Shove so far is the only skill I know that doesnt need a weapon that knockdown. Are there any other skills that knock down that dont require a weapon. I'm having a hard time getting to Tarnen the Bully.

samcobra · Jul 19, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

There is:
Coward,
None Shall Pass,

Also, keep in mind that use those plus "on your knees" for stances :P

Seriously though, ANET puts way too much emphasis on KD, I mean, most of the elite skills that knockdown are only elite BECAUSE they knock down. They lack in other advantages for the most part. It seems that if there is any knockdown skill without some form of drawback, ANET automatically makes it elite>>> Shock-exhaustion, Shove-lose adren, etc.

Pick Me · Jul 20, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

If you are asking about Warrior skills only, then yes, Samcobra I think has listed them all.

If you want any skill (regardless of profession) then there are many spells from Elementalist, a couple from the Necromancer, a couple from the Ranger (pets are not weapsons.

), Monks have a few, and the Ritualist has 1.

As for drawbacks...

Whirlwind/Teinai's Wind hits all adjacent foes, if they are attacking, they are knockdowned. It is not an elite, nor does it cause exhaustion.

Bane Signet - if foe is attacking, foe is knocked down. Also does damage.

Earthbind - all foes within range are KD for 3 seconds

These are just examples of non-elites without exhaustion or gain condition, etc.

Please note, knockdowns have certain critieria or drawbacks for a reason. If a foe(s) are KD, they can't attack, cast spells, move, and are prone to additional attacks, and may suffer extra damage from spells.

KD is not a condition that can be cured. That is why if there are no drawbacks it is an elite.

Munanko Roha · Jul 20, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Yes but, what if a skill has drawbacks even if it's an elite?

Shove disables all of your non-attack skills, Mind Shock exhausts and is conditional, Spike Trap deals very low damage, Coward only hits fleeing foes...

Only the Hammer elites are real non conditional-no drawbacks elites, and probably with Factions assassins became the real best knockers in the game.

Pick Me · Jul 20, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Good point.

Coward! - what really is a fleeing foe? Monks would be fleeing.

This is a nice way to stop monks from running away from you.

Shove - KD, lose all adrenaline (hopefully you used your adrenaline with other skills prior to using this skill), Non-attack skills are disabled (again hopefully you are in a stance, so our other defense skills are not needed), and does damage up to 65. In this case, damage, cheap energy and KD are the reason for the elite status.

Mind Shock does damage + more damage if you have more energy than target foe and has armor penetration of 25%, plus the knockdown.

Spike Trap is an AoE that cripples, damages and KD. The drawback is its a trap.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend ANet in their wisdom for making Elites and normal skills that have KD abilities with drawbacks, but you must admit, KDs are very useful and as such, to make sure there is a balance, somethings (like adrenaline loss, long recharge times, high adrenaline costs, etc.) must be included or abuse may become a factor.

samcobra · Jul 20, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Earthbind - all foes within range are KD for 3 seconds

Actually, earthbind doesn't knock foes down, it only increases kd time, kind of like stonefist gauntlets.

But I was wrong in saying drawbacks, what I should have said is that the knockdowns in the game either have a drawback OR A CONDITION

Sig of Judgement (elite), Bane Signet (they need to be attacking), same with whirlwind.

Anyway, thanks for pointing that out, Pick Me

Pick Me · Jul 20, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Samcobra, thanks for letting me know about Earthbind. Lol, all this time I kept reading it wrong.

I wonder if you were a W/Rit, and used Stonefist Gauntlets and had Earthbind and used Backbreaker, would the duration time be cumulative? I mean force a foe to be on their back for like 10 seconds. That would be very nice.

twicky_kid · Jul 20, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Coward! - what really is a fleeing foe? Monks would be fleeing.

This is a nice way to stop monks from running away from you.

Fleeing is when a foe is running away with their back turned to you. Bull strike/charge used to work like before it was changed to moving.

No one would use them when it was fleeing because the condition is very buggy in game. You never really know when to use it either.

It needs to be changed to moving if its ever going to see play.

Minus Sign · Jul 20, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Didn't they change "fleeing" to just moving away from you? Back doesn't have to be turned anymore. I can't find the update...

Pick me, you're thinking about Wanderlust. Spirit; if its attacks hit, foe is KDed and spirit takes damage.

Shove is the equivilant of a KD with critical hit on axe. Its also non-attack skill, so spells like faintheartedness don't effect it and it can't be blocked/evaded. After much deliberation (and use) I've given up on this skill. It's uber nerfed as a stock skill, and it takes your Elite slot to use. Shove blows until they strip at least 1 nerf.

There are several SPELLs in Fire, Air and Earth that KD without weapon requirement. I've seen a few warriors using Meteor and MShower as an improvised Gale post nerf, but the effect is detrimental.

EDIT: maximum KD is 3 seconds per. There is no stack beyond that.

If you want to be a KD chain warrior, stick to Hammer skills. But if you want to just dominate KD, Sin/Ele pwn.

Anryla · Jul 21, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

If I'm not totally misstaken I once used "Coward!" against a touch ranger when I was fleeing from him, hit Coward, since he was following me he got knocked down, and I turned around and pounded him a little
I think the wiki even says that it knocks down moving foes, no matter where they are heading.

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 21, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Since we are talking knowndowns in the warrior section.

Wammos with BRAINS can take holy/soulstone strike for nasty damage. (Brains as opposed to mending)